New 2017 Pre-charge Bail Laws - Help needed

 

Does anyone have experience of these new laws please, as I fall under the new pre charge bail laws that came into effect from April 2017. I have been bailed for 28 days and then three months. As this time is nearly up the police have to apply to the courts for an extension because they say they have not had time to inspect my computer and phone. The solicitor and I need to complete the bcl009 form but are not familiar with this form and we have five business days to respond. - Response to Application of Police Pre-charge Bail

This form states that should have been given a copy of the investigators application to the Court (bcl007) so that I can respond, however the Police have not given this to me. Can they use rule r.14.22 section 47ZH, to withhold this form information from me?

This seems a bit extreme, as my ex girlfriend made a malicious allegation and I am currently under investigation for a common assault and a miscellaneous one (sharing pictures of my ex-girlfriend with friends and family).

The problem is that we fell out in December and I tried to move on with my life but she found out I had a new girlfriend in March. She went on the attack and threatened to ruin mine and my family’s life by making various false allegations and threatening volence against myself and my children. I recorded this conversation on the telephone and she states that her ex-partner is a Policeman and she will use him to her advantage, as she has a direct line into the police station.

As my previous post states, she has contacted ex-girlfriends etc and has made further malicious allegations about me and my family to other organizations. These have been investigated and found to be malicious and false. Do I have a case to report her to the police for collective harrassment? 

In addition, I had a traumatic brain injury when I was young, so I have cognitive difficulties with reading and writing etc. When I attended the police station on a voluntary basis they arrested and interviewed me without an appropriate adult being present. When I told them that my epilepsy medication dose was due they said they would go to my home to collect it. I did not know till afterwards that they used this opportunity to search me home and took my computer and phone.

As this system is new, my solicitor is not familiar with this scenario, so I would be very grateful anyone could give me some guidance on how to fill in the response form without knowing what has been written about me, or any other advice that would be helpful in my situation.

This post supercedes my previous one and I have received help to write these.

Many thanks.

Your solicitor is being paid

Your solicitor is being paid to advise you. I would suggest that he catches up quickly and does his job.

Richard Paremain

Profile: Personal injury specialist solicitor with Sarginsons Law LLP. I have more than 20 years experience involving both minor injury and cases with injury of the utmost severity. This has ranged from the Zeebrugge Ferry Disaster to a pavement trip for a Mrs Gready.I have a special interest in compensation for the Victims of Crime through the Criminal Injuries scheme. 02476521081 rparemain@s-law.co.uk

Hi I have some experience

Hi

I have some experience with the new laws but in all honestly I have dealt with hundreds of clients since the law changed in April and the police have not used pre-charge bail once. They tend to exclusively release under investigation at my local station. 

The police must serve their application on you: 

Criminal Procedure Rule 14.22 -

"

14.22.—

(1) This rule applies where an application to authorise an extension of pre-charge bail includes an application to withhold information from the defendant.

(2) The applicant must—

(a) omit that information from the part of the application that is served on the defendant; "

They would not be entitled to withhold their application from you altogether because there is a specific procedure for them to ask the court to consider confidential information without it being revealed to you. 

If there is confidential information which they wish the court to consider but be withheld from you, there is a 'confidential information supplement' form bcl008 which they submit to the court along with form bcl007 (application to extend pre-charge bail). If the court refuses the confidential information application, the police must either (a) serve the information on you or (b) withdraw their application to extend your bail. 

Your Solicitor needs to be aware of the grounds for the application that the court will consider because it's unlikely that they "haven't had enough time" to check your phone will be enough. The court needs to be satisfied that the investigation is being conducted diligently and expeditiously. 

Have you or your Solicitor asked the police for their application (form bcl007)? 

If your Solicitor is worried about how he's going to get paid, he can claim under CRM1/2/3 if you are financially eligible for advocacy assistance. 

Part 14 Criminal Procedure Rules:

http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/criminal/docs/2015/crim...

Part 14 Forms:

http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/criminal/forms#Anchor3

Kind Regards
Matt

All posts are for discussion purposes only and should not be considered legal advice. 

Accredited Police Station Representative
Associate Member of the Chartered Institute of Legal Executives

Profile: Accredited Police Station Representative

Pre-charge bail Update

Hi Matt

Thank you for responding to my post.

My solicitor called the Police on Monday and they have made a mistake with the paperwork. They told him to ignore that form, as they now intend to serve me with both papers on the 25th August. It seems they also calculated the original pre charge bail date incorrectly as well! (10th July to 25th August). My solicitor has been given a new date for me to attend the station on the 12th September but should they have sent me an updated copy of this? 

Many thanks

 

 

Hi It's not easy to advise on

Hi

It's not easy to advise on over the internet without having access to a file. Bail is limited to 28 days initially but this can be extended by a superintendent if certain conditions are met. Any time your file is with the CPS for them to consider a charging decision, this time doesn't count against the clock. 

So it would be difficult to say whether they're in time without knowing whether or not your file has been with the CPS for a charging decision. 

If the police run out of time and haven't asked for an extension, you cease to be on bail. If they have applied to the court before your applicable bail period ends, but the court doesn't determine it before that period ends, your bail is automatically extended until the court considers the application. 

Kind Regards

Matt

All posts are for discussion purposes only and should not be considered legal advice. 

Accredited Police Station Representative
Associate Member of the Chartered Institute of Legal Executives

Profile: Accredited Police Station Representative

Update on Pre-charge bail

Hi

Many thanks for this info Matt,

This is for police pre charge bail and they will be applying to the court on Friday, as its been less than three months, so they are in time.  I will also be served with their paperwork on Friday and will have 5 days to respond to their application. I won't know what the charges are until we see their form on Friday, can I comeback to you then please?

Can I ask for my health record from the police, or will this be disclosed on my custody record?

Kind regards

 

 

Hi There won't be any charges

Hi

There won't be any charges as you're still on pre-charge bail, which means you haven't yet been charged. When I said any time your file was with CPS for them to advise on charging decisions doesn't count, I meant the following: 

The police have the power to charge some low level offences themselves. More serious offences, domestic related, hate crime and other kinds of offences usually have to be charged by a Crown Prosecution Service lawyer and the police do not have the power to charge them themselves. If the offence you are being investigated for is one which has to be charged by a prosecutor, then any time your file is with the prosecutor for them to consider whether or not you should be charged does not count against your bail clock. 

So if you've been on bail for 25 days, but 5 of those days your file was with a prosecutor for them to consider whether you should be charged, you will only have been on bail for 20 days for the purposes of calculating whether the time limit has been reached, meaning the police will have 8 days left under the original 28 day time limit.

The police usually provide a redacted custody record which has limited healthcare information on it. You or your Solicitor are entitled to a copy of the custody record. 

Kind Regards
Matt

All posts are for discussion purposes only and should not be considered legal advice. 

Accredited Police Station Representative
Associate Member of the Chartered Institute of Legal Executives

Profile: Accredited Police Station Representative

Update on Pre-charge bail paperwork

Hi Matt

Just struggling with this paperwork from the police.

If you remember, I was previously served my "response form" on the 11th August but not any other paperwork with it, due to a police error with both the paperwork and pre-charge bail date.

On the 25th August was served with one form "Application for the extension of pre-charge bail confidential information supplement (r.14.22; section 47ZH)". This form quotes the name of the court, URN, ASN number and the name of the DC, this information is typed up.

The problem is now, that my "response form" (which is handwritten) from the police contains different information. The URN is a different number, there is no ASN number and the name and the address of the magistrates court is different, as its my local court.

Which court should I send my response to?

Or do I have to ask the police to serve me with another "response form", showing the correct URN no and Court?

Also, not sure if my arrest was legal? As I attended the police station on a voluntary basis with an appointment. After three hours waiting for an officer, I said I needed to leave, due to committments, the police made a call and then I was arrested and detained in a cell because there was no officer to interview me. After seven hours when I spoke to the duty solicitor, she told me that the Police should have made another appointment for me, as I have never skipped bail or anything like that, I have no criminal record and I have a permanent address.

Kind regards

 

 

 

 

 

Hi Your solicitor should be

Hi

Your solicitor should be able to provide you with a clean copy to write the new information on. Alternatively you could cross out and replace the info on the form you already have. 

Your arrest may not have been lawful, difficult to say on the info you've provided. Two things have to be satisfied for an arrest to be lawful. (1) the police must have reasonable grounds to suspect someone has committed an offence/is in the process of committing an offence/will commit an offence and (2) that an arrest is necessary. 

s24(5) PACE 1984 sets out the reasons which would make an arrest necessary. The most commonly used one is 'to allow a prompt and effective investigation of the offence or of the conduct of the person in question.' This could include for example carrying out a search where the suspect is not consenting.

If time was of the essence to interview you for some reason then your arrest may have been lawful even though you attended voluntarily. Case law says it is not lawful to routinely arrest people who attend as volunteers. 

Kind Regards

Matt

All posts are for discussion purposes only and should not be considered legal advice. 

Accredited Police Station Representative
Associate Member of the Chartered Institute of Legal Executives

Profile: Accredited Police Station Representative

Re Update

Hi Matt

Regarding the time, the allegations refered to January 17, however my ex-girlfriend did not report this to the police until June 17. Would that suggest that the allegation was not sufficiently urgent for her to report  the incident? 

And we were only communicating by telephone and social media from March to June, no physical contact whatsoever.

kind regards

 

 

Based on what you've said it

Based on what you've said it seems unlikely there would have been any necessity to arrest you and they should have let you arrange a further voluntary interview. 

This is assuming there was no harassment or intimidation on social media or any further allegations arising out of contact with her. 

All posts are for discussion purposes only and should not be considered legal advice. 

Accredited Police Station Representative
Associate Member of the Chartered Institute of Legal Executives

Profile: Accredited Police Station Representative

Update on Pre-charge bail

Hi Matt

Thank you so much for your time in replying to my posts. i am very grateful.

It appears that the police sent one form bcl007 to my solicitor and posted one form bcl008 to me on the 28th August. The solicitor completed his form and emailed the response to the court this morning. However the solicitor did not know that i had been served with the confidential information supplement form and I have emailed this to him today. Is there anything that my solicitor should be doing with the confidential form, ie asking the court to reconsider this request etc., or is this to late now? He has requested a hearing on form bcl1007.

Is a bank holiday day counted as working day in respect of the 5 days to respond? 

 

kind regards

Hi Hector This is all brand

Hi Hector

This is all brand new stuff which only came into force in April 2017 so a lot of this is still new to us. There is no specific form for your Solicitor to ask the court to consider additional information, but if he e-mails in the extra information or re-writes and then re-submits the form I would expect most courts would take it into account if it is reasonable to do so e.g. if they haven't spent a long time deliberating over the previous form. As your Solicitor has requested a hearing, he can make oral representations at the hearing if the court grants a hearing. 

You should not have been sent bcl008 and the police have made a bit of a faux pas by sending it to you. bcl008 is a form which should be sent only to the court containing confidential information which they want the court to consider but they don't want you to know about. By sending it to you they have defeated their own application because they have already disclosed the information to you, rendering the whole thing pointless. 

All posts are for discussion purposes only and should not be considered legal advice. 

Accredited Police Station Representative
Associate Member of the Chartered Institute of Legal Executives

Profile: Accredited Police Station Representative

Bail Paperwork

Hi Matt

Thank you for coming back to me.

I forget to mention that the bcl008 form only contains information in the first two sections of the first page, the other page is blank so unfortunatley I'm not aware of this confidential information.

My solicitor has sent me a copy of the completed response form and has answered the questions in a similar basic way, to what was discussed in previous posts.

However I cannot understand why the police failed to provide my solicitor with the bcl008 form, so he could refer to this form in his response. Is there any point in letting the court know about this error and all the other paperwork errors that we have mentioned. 

Also my ex-girlfriend is speaking about the case to her friends on her public Facebook page, so its hardly confidential now. Could we ask the Court to reveal the contents of the bcl008 form, as the case is now exposed in the public domain (Facebook).

kind regards

 

 

 

 

 

Well the form they sent to

Well the form they sent to your solicitor would be blank as well, because if it contained the information they didn't wish you to have your solicitor would just pass it onto you. 

The court won't reveal the contents of bcl008 to you. They can refuse the police's application to keep the information confidential but it is then up to the police whether they reveal the information to you or withdraw their application to extend your bail. They're only under an obligation to disclose it to you if the court refuse the application to keep the information confidential and they still wish to pursue the application to extend your bail. 

If the court grants the confidential information application, neither you nor your solicitor will get you know about it - that's the whole point of it. This unfortunately means that the court could extend your bail based on confidential information meaning you won't get to know why.

The police don't have to send you bcl008 at all so it's not exactly a paperwork error them sending you a half filled in one.

Kind Regards

Matt

All posts are for discussion purposes only and should not be considered legal advice. 

Accredited Police Station Representative
Associate Member of the Chartered Institute of Legal Executives

Profile: Accredited Police Station Representative

Bail paperwork

Hi Matt

Thank you so much for explaining that.

It does seem that the police have messed up the paperwork. First they sent me the response form bcl009, which I could not respond to because they forgot to send me the bcl007. After my solicitor complained about this, they sent him the bcl1007 form but not to me, so I still dont know what was written on this form. Then the police sent me the bcl008 form but not to my solicitor, so he did not know about this application, until i told him today. The solicitor had already submitted his response to the bcl007 without knowledge of the bcl008 application. To confuse matters more the bcl009 form has a different urn no and court compared to the bcl008. How mad is all of that!

kind regards

 

 

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